I know I have had a discussion on Consim World about what would have happened if the Japanese would have used the Fuel Farms and Dry Docks as a greater priority target then then the Battle ships, and well I have not had the chance to try such an attack, hopefully some time next year.

But I have a another question - Yamamoto said "We have awaken a giant and filled him with a terrible resolve..." when he had heard that the Japanese Declaration of War did not get to the State Department until after the attack. My question is this - if the Japanese DoW was delivered on time, or better yet some 2 to 12 hours before the attack on Pearl Harbor, how much of a difference would it have made? Would America not been filled with the "...terrible resolve..." Would there been a point in the costly Pacific Theater that we would have said enough and done a Negotiated Peace instead of an Unconditional Surrender? And does anyone have an idea how this would effect the Victory Condition for the Pacific War or any other Pacific Theater game? I do hope to hear from you all

Dave

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I agree with you that the "terrible resolve" was coming, whether or not there was a declaration of war ahead of time, and therefore think that it shouldn't even factor into any game's Victory conditions.

Although I've owned the game for years, I'm just now getting into playing it. I'll be starting a full campaign game sometime over the next few months. Looking forward to it. Also looking forward to some strategy discussions in this forum.

-Mark
Mark,

If I may disagree with you on this, without the "Terrible Resolve" I think the Japanese could have fought the U.S. to a stalemate and maybe even bring the U.S. to the bargaining table if they took enough of our youth. I feel we would not have held out for Unconditional Surrender. We might even not have used the Atom Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I think the war could have been very different.

Dave
Oh, I think that's a pipe dream that Japan could have unleashed any sort of offensive on the US, swept them away, then be able to count on the US simply saying "OK, that's enough of that." Unconditional Surrender is the American way, and since it was essentially an American war against Japan, I doubt that anything less would have been accepted.

The atomic bombs were simply available and convenient (due to the rush to develop the Bomb before the nazis did). The USN had a very workable strategy to force Japan's surrender without an invasion, and largely pursued it. Personally, I doubt that the atomic bombs shorted the war by more than a few months. And it's always a conflicted judgment whether the unleashing of those weapons against humans was worth setting such a precedent. (My father-in-law, slated to participate in Operation Olympic, naturally believes use of the Bomb was very much worth the precedent. Duck and cover baby boomers often have a different perspective.)

My opinion above is heavily influenced by HP Willmott.

Russel
Russel,

I may take some flack for this but I was playing devils advocate above. My true feelings is that Truman had a responsibility to the American People - And that is to save American lives - And that if the Bombs saved just one American Live he had a Duty to Drop Both Bombs no matter the cost to the Japanese!

And yes even if the the bombs would have shorten the war by mere months How many lives would have been lost. We will never know, but I do know that Fire Bombing Would have been used and a much larger portion of the populace would have been killed, and even more homeless.

Dave

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